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Miz Robbie
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Yet Another Guns Thread
Stolen from Facebook:
WHAT WE SAID: We need common sense gun laws.
WHAT YOU HEARD: Take away all the guns, melt them and make a statue of an NFL player kneeling.
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10/5/2017, 9:46 am
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Miz Robbie
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Re: Yet Another Guns Thread
Republicans Open to Banning ‘Bump Stocks’ Used in Massacre
By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG and TIFFANY HSU OCT. 4, 2017
WASHINGTON — Top congressional Republicans, who have for decades resisted any legislative limits on guns, signaled on Wednesday that they would be open to banning the firearm accessory that the Las Vegas gunman used to transform his rifles to mimic automatic weapon fire.
For a generation, Republicans in Congress — often joined by conservative Democrats — have bottled up gun legislation, even as the carnage of mass shootings grew ever more gruesome and the weaponry ever more deadly. A decade ago, they blocked efforts to limit the size of magazines after the massacre at Virginia Tech. Five years later, Republican leaders thwarted bipartisan legislation to expand background checks of gun purchasers after the mass shooting at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn.
Last year, in the wake of the Orlando nightclub massacre, they blocked legislation to stop gun sales to buyers on terrorism watch lists.
But in this week’s massacre in Las Vegas, lawmakers in both parties may have found the part of the weapons trade that few could countenance: previously obscure gun conversion kits, called “bump stocks,” that turn semiautomatic weapons into weapons capable of firing in long, deadly bursts.
“I own a lot of guns, and as a hunter and sportsman, I think that’s our right as Americans, but I don’t understand the use of this bump stock,” Senator John Cornyn of Texas, the No. 2 Republican in the Senate, said, adding, “It seems like it’s an obvious area we ought to explore and see if it’s something Congress needs to act on.”
Much more at: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/04/us/politics/bump-stock-fire-legal-republicans-congress.html?_r=0
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Robbie
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10/5/2017, 9:50 am
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JustLis
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Re: Yet Another Guns Thread
*waving to Cooter*
I ran into Cooter out on Facebook, discussing this issue a bit, and he didn't recognize me with my real name clothes on. He was very polite. 
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Lis
Just one voice.... Singing in the darkness....
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10/5/2017, 9:58 am
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CooterBrown44
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Re: Yet Another Guns Thread
I fail to see why they're legal.
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10/5/2017, 10:26 am
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shiftless2
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Re: Yet Another Guns Thread
The gun control debate is over ...
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10/5/2017, 11:47 am
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CooterBrown44
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Re: Yet Another Guns Thread
I'm sorry, but that was so much bullshit. Kind of like Voter ID.......a solution in search of a problem.
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10/5/2017, 12:37 pm
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Miz Robbie
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Re: Yet Another Guns Thread
quote:
CooterBrown44 wrote:
I'm sorry, but that was so much bullshit. Kind of like Voter ID.......a solution in search of a problem.
Sorry, but I don't know what you're finding to be "so much bullshit." Could you clarify, please?
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10/5/2017, 1:34 pm
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Bellelettres
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Re: Yet Another Guns Thread
I'm puzzled about that too. What are we talking about that could be called bullshit?
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10/5/2017, 1:42 pm
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CooterBrown44
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Re: Yet Another Guns Thread
I'm having to go on memory, but the weapons used were purchased legally and stored by Lanza's mothers. He killed her and stole the weapons. No laws could have prevented this from happening, other than a complete banning of private ownership of firearms, which is what the end aim is of those who oppose private ownership. Sandy Hook was used by those as an excuse to ban said ownership.
The problem that is more often than not the cause of murder with firearm is lack of mental health treatment.
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10/5/2017, 2:27 pm
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Miz Robbie
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Re: Yet Another Guns Thread
quote:
CooterBrown44 wrote:
I'm having to go on memory, but the weapons used were purchased legally and stored by Lanza's mothers. He killed her and stole the weapons. No laws could have prevented this from happening, other than a complete banning of private ownership of firearms, which is what the end aim is of those who oppose private ownership. Sandy Hook was used by those as an excuse to ban said ownership.
The problem that is more often than not the cause of murder with firearm is lack of mental health treatment.
Is this part of a discussion you're having at YAP? It doesn't seem to be part of a discussion we're having here.
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10/5/2017, 2:36 pm
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CooterBrown44
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Re: Yet Another Guns Thread
It's pretty much the same discussion everywhere.
There are six members in my extended family through blood or marriage. We all own at least two firearms, and all oppose legal sale of bump modification kits. There is no need for private ownership.
The NRA is nuts.
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10/5/2017, 4:38 pm
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JustLis
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Re: Yet Another Guns Thread
quote:
CooterBrown44 wrote:
I'm having to go on memory, but the weapons used were purchased legally and stored by Lanza's mothers. He killed her and stole the weapons. No laws could have prevented this from happening, other than a complete banning of private ownership of firearms, which is what the end aim is of those who oppose private ownership. Sandy Hook was used by those as an excuse to ban said ownership.
The problem that is more often than not the cause of murder with firearm is lack of mental health treatment.
First, Cooter, you're slipping into the assumption that anyone who advocates for gun control is trying to take away your gun. Virtually no one wants a complete ban on guns. Anyone holding that position is in the extreme minority. So let's start where most Americans REALLY are.
No laws could have PREVENTED the Sandy Hook attack at all, but preventing the sale of the AR-15 might have cut down on the death toll. As much as gun proponents keep claiming that other guns are more deadly, there is a reason that mass shooters keep reaching for that same gun. Maybe it's the fact that the gun can shoot 45 bullets per minute, and your standard BB gun just isn't that effective.
Preventing the sale of large magazines could have also significantly cut the death toll. Lanza used multiple 30-round magazines. There were reports that when one magazine ran out and Lanza had to reload, several children were able to run from the room. If Lanza had had to reload once every 6 or 8 or 10 bullets, many more lives could have been saved.
The fact is that if we had changed the gun laws back then, MAYBE Paddock wouldn't have been able to get his hands on the guns and the large magazines that he used in Las Vegas. Certainly he couldn't have gotten them legally.
As for the link between a lack of mental health treatment and mass shootings, I agree there is often a link. So why did Republicans guarantee those with mental illnesses severe enough to warrant Social Security disability the ability to own guns? Why do Republicans insist that those who are too dangerous to allow to board a flight are perfectly fine to buy semi-automatic weapons and unlimited ammunition? Given these kinds of votes, blaming mental illness is just lip service and not a real concern on the part of Republicans and the NRA. It's all about selling guns, and the safety of innocent Americans be damned.
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Lis
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10/5/2017, 9:50 pm
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bigbarry2u
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Re: Yet Another Guns Thread
It's highly insulting to state that "shooting children is bearable".
And by extension, highly arrogant or dismissive to think that if your side got its way, things like Sandy Hook would not happen.
You did not make this assertion Robbie. But it was made in this thread.
It's hard to engage in debate when someone throws down a claim one side is ok with shooting children.
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I thought growing old would take longer.
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10/5/2017, 9:56 pm
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Miz Robbie
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Re: Yet Another Guns Thread
quote:
bigbarry2u wrote:
It's highly insulting to state that "shooting children is bearable".
Well, that was a meme that nobody here created, but was only re-posted.
That said, what the meme conveys is that no significant gun legislation was enacted after Sandy Hook. To many of us, that means the horror of murdered children wasn't sufficient to cause anything to happen that would prevent such a thing from happening again.
As an aside... that shooting happened in mid-December. As a parent, I know that some of my child's Christmas presents would have been purchased by then, hidden on the top shelf of the linen closet, behind some old towels.
That shooting made me reflect on parents who had to go home to hidden Christmas presents for a child they would no longer have with them to celebrate the holiday. And it makes me cry every time I think of it.
And nothing happened as a result.
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10/6/2017, 1:28 am
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GoHawk
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Re: Yet Another Guns Thread
During the 38 years we have neen together Becky and I have only ever had one firearm in our house. When our son was in his late teens he decided he needed to become a great white bird hunter (one of the rights of passage for Iowa farm boys). So in that regard we sent him to a hunter safety course at the local community college, and then gave him a new shotgun for Christmas. Against my wife's desire I might add. Well, one day Becky and I heard this large boom coming from the kitchen area. We immediately went rushing into the kitchen and discovered that for whatever reason, our son had taken his shotgun into the pantry to clean. Well it was loaded and he accidently shot a giant hole in the pantry ceiling. Well I never heard my wife utter an obscene word in her life until that day. But almost immediately she was screaming at the top of lungs for our son to get that blank blanking gun out of her house. And that he had blanking two minutes to get it out of her sight. Well he broke it down, packed it up and took it out to the barn. Where it and the rattletrap old pickup he drove through high school both sit today. I guess i need to haul the pickup to the salvage yard. And see if I can sell the shotgun. Having said all of that, I do believe in strengthening gun control laws. But no I am not going to take away anyone's guns as my parting shot.
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10/6/2017, 6:43 am
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shiftless2
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Re: Yet Another Guns Thread
quote:
bigbarry2u wrote:
It's highly insulting to state that "shooting children is bearable".
And by extension, highly arrogant or dismissive to think that if your side got its way, things like Sandy Hook would not happen.
You did not make this assertion Robbie. But it was made in this thread.
It's hard to engage in debate when someone throws down a claim one side is ok with shooting children.
So why didn't anyone take action?
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10/6/2017, 7:51 am
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bigbarry2u
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Re: Yet Another Guns Thread
My friends on the left presume legislation could have prevented such a tragedy or the next one. I wonder, what legislation could have been passed to prevent Sandy Hook?
Or even Las Vegas?
Even outlawing the "bump stocks" which I am okay with, btw, does not prevent a madman from getting them and using them.
But it is horrific to claim that people accept the deaths of children as bearable in order to advance their flawed political agenda. It is arrogant, smug, and wrong.
Monsters exist. Evil exists. We can not legislate that away.
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10/6/2017, 7:57 am
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CooterBrown44
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Re: Yet Another Guns Thread
Here we go again. It's the AR-15 which did it, even though a plethora of other semi-automatic rifles could have accomplished the same thing.
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10/6/2017, 8:06 am
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Bellelettres
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Re: Yet Another Guns Thread
quote:
bigbarry2u wrote:
My friends on the left presume legislation could have prevented such a tragedy or the next one. I wonder, what legislation could have been passed to prevent Sandy Hook?
Or even Las Vegas?
Even outlawing the "bump stocks" which I am okay with, btw, does not prevent a madman from getting them and using them.
But it is horrific to claim that people accept the deaths of children as bearable in order to advance their flawed political agenda. It is arrogant, smug, and wrong.
Monsters exist. Evil exists. We can not legislate that away.
So what is the use of having any laws at all, since people are going to commit crimes anyway?
Last edited by Bellelettres, 10/6/2017, 8:10 am
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10/6/2017, 8:08 am
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shiftless2
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Re: Yet Another Guns Thread
quote:
bigbarry2u wrote:
But it is horrific to claim that people accept the deaths of children as bearable in order to advance their flawed political agenda. It is arrogant, smug, and wrong.
Then do something about it. Believe it or not, gun control works. (See my post below)
quote:
Monsters exist. Evil exists. We can not legislate that away.
On that basis you don't object to Kim Jong Un obtaining nuclear weapons? After all, you can't legislate people like him away so why try to restrict his access to nuclear weapons?
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10/6/2017, 8:23 am
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