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bigbarry2u Profile
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Re: Religion


I don't recall having those conversations with you, MsSQ. The ones I most recall were with an avowed pagan witch. You can imagine!

I do think many people do more harm in the name of Christianity than good because they apply their own interpretations of historic writings in present-day context. It's natural to do so, but not always helpful or right.

I'm sure someone soon will put out a quote from scripture and claim that this prophesied the shooting in Las Vegas which is why those people deserved to die, etc. Total garbage, but you could set your watch by it.



---
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10/2/2017, 6:20 pm Link to this post PM bigbarry2u
 
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Re: Religion


quote:

GoHawk wrote:

My relationship with religion? A bit ambiguous to say the least. How would I describe myself? Very simply I am a devout non-believing Catholic. While I was baptized, and confirmed in the Catholic Church, I do not believe in the Virgin birth, the Holy Trinity, a physical Heaven or Hell. Or even in a personal God. What I do believe in are the teachings of Jesus Christ (be he a real human being or not). In particular I believe in the teachings of the Sermon on the Mount - specifically the Beatitudes, and the Golden Rule. I also believe in numerous other teachings of the Church, including my favorite prayer, the Prayer of St. Francis of Assisi. While a relationship to Francis is most likely apocryphal rather than actual, I do find it a beautiful prayer. As well as a meaningful guide to live by. And I do attend Mass on a fairly regular basis. Only because I find the experiance to be uplifting. And because our current Parish priest is one of the few truly sane clergy I have ever known. In addition I do attend confession - as I find confessing my transgressions to be both therapeutic and liberating. I know. None of that makes any sense to anyone other than me.



This Sunday was our annual St. Francis celebration, with the blessing of the animals, Hawk. I asked our (Episcopal) priest what was the most unusual pet he had ever blessed. He responded that one of the young girls (who is now in college) asked him to bless the cricket that she intended to feed to her pet hamster. I know this girl, and I know she was testing our priest. He blessed the cricket.

None of my beliefs makes sense to anyone other than me, either. One belief I refuse to give up, however, is the Golden Rule. I could be a blessed cricket and be at peace.
10/2/2017, 7:57 pm Link to this post PM MsSusieQueue
 
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Re: Religion


That's cool about the cricket, Susie!
10/3/2017, 8:09 am Link to this post PM CooterBrown44
 
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Re: Religion


quote:

shiftless2 wrote:

JustLis, I agree with most of what you said but I am going to take issue with your use of the word "knowledge" in this sentence

quote:

...people of faith and their KNOWLEDGE and full faith that there is a God



The Oxford Dictionary (OED) gives several definitions among which we find:

Strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof

If you "know something" (i.e., have proof that it is true) it is no longer "faith".

And there is no proof - far smarter people than any of us have been trying to prove the existence of god (any god) for centuries with absolutely no success.



I understand your explanation of the difference between having faith and having knowledge. I was only expressing what I have heard from friends, whose faith has led them to know there is a God.

Maybe I can explain it this way. I KNOW men have stepped on the moon. Do I have proof of it? Not personal proof. I wasn't there. I have seen footage of it, provided by NASA, and I have faith (trust?) that they didn't lie to us and fake the event. So...my "faith" in NASA gives me the knowledge that the event is factual. I think it is the same sense for my friends that their faith has led to a knowledge that God exists.

That is all I was trying to convey. And I'm sorry if I'm mangling the words.

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10/5/2017, 2:00 pm Link to this post PM JustLis
 
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Re: Religion


quote:

bigbarry2u wrote:

Also, in my theology, nobody "earns" a spot in heaven. it is freely given to anyone that will accept it. No matter rich or poor, gay or straight, black or white, young or old, male or female. None of us can do anything to deserve it. But we can accept the grace and mercy to receive it.

Your mileage may vary.



Bob, this is a very popular belief in my area of the country (though most churches around here would take "gay" out of that list). In fact, that very message was preached at a funeral I attended last week. We were told you can't get into heaven based on your good works on earth. The only way in is to accept Jesus as your Savior, and you're in. It was a lengthy speech, and it felt for all the world like the speaker's words were boring into me very painfully. It. Felt. Awful. That's not the way to attract me in....

But this message really strikes me as so very different from the messages of Jesus. So many New Testament messages call for people to love one another and help one another in any way they can. If good works are irrelevant, why focus on that message?

This message of "all you have to do is accept Jesus and you're in" lays open all kinds of opportunities for sin and harming others, since nothing else matters once you're "in".
 When all you have to do is say the magic words and you're in, what is the incentive to actually do the right things in your life?

And...I have to say it. To insist that accepting Jesus into your heart is the ONLY way to heaven just offends me. What about Jews? What about Muslims? What about Buddhists? What about Wiccans? What about the many, many faith systems of this world that AREN'T about Christianity -- especially given that Christians are a minority in the world.

If I were a loving God, I would lay out as many pathways as possible for my children to find their way to me. Regardless of religion, spirituality, or faith system, I would make it as easy as possible for my children to find their way home. If one faith provides that path by calling for followers to pray five times a day, so be it. If another faith provides that path through baptism, so be it. And I don't even have a problem with any religion explaining their belief system and method(s) for reaching heaven or communing with God.

But when a religion or a church or a minister insists that there is ONLY one path to God, and theirs is it, it is a very alienating message....

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Lis

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10/5/2017, 2:26 pm Link to this post PM JustLis
 
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Re: Religion


quote:

GoHawk wrote:

My relationship with religion? A bit ambiguous to say the least. How would I describe myself? Very simply I am a devout non-believing Catholic. While I was baptized, and confirmed in the Catholic Church, I do not believe in the Virgin birth, the Holy Trinity, a physical Heaven or Hell. Or even in a personal God. What I do believe in are the teachings of Jesus Christ (be he a real human being or not). In particular I believe in the teachings of the Sermon on the Mount - specifically the Beatitudes, and the Golden Rule. I also believe in numerous other teachings of the Church, including my favorite prayer, the Prayer of St. Francis of Assisi. While a relationship to Francis is most likely apocryphal rather than actual, I do find it a beautiful prayer. As well as a meaningful guide to live by. And I do attend Mass on a fairly regular basis. Only because I find the experiance to be uplifting. And because our current Parish priest is one of the few truly sane clergy I have ever known. In addition I do attend confession - as I find confessing my transgressions to be both therapeutic and liberating. I know. None of that makes any sense to anyone other than me.



Hawk, I appreciate where you're coming from. My Mom was a very devout Catholic (Dad was Methodist), and she took our religious education very seriously. We never missed church. We were enrolled in CCD classes every Saturday because we went to public school. I tried to fade into the woodwork at school. But the poor nuns at CCD.... When we were preparing for First Confession, I had a gazillion questions about why we had to tell a priest what we had done, when our offense was against God -- and how God would tell the priest what our punishment would be. Wasn't the priest just making that decision by himself? And why was THAT right? And when it came time for First Communion.... That is NOT the actual body and blood of Christ -- it is a little wafer of bread and some wine. And if it WERE actual body and blood -- EWWW!!! And for Confirmation, if my Baptism was sufficient to get me this far, why was it necessary to confirm it? Didn't the Baptism already get me into heaven? Truly, I didn't intend to cause trouble for the nuns. The logic just never made sense to me even as a child....

I'm with you about the Beatitudes and the Golden Rule. And the Prayer of St. Francis is one of the most beautiful hymns I know.

As for attending church.... I found it to be a very painful experience from the start. We were continually taught that Jesus died for our sins. I'd stare up at that massive statue of Jesus on the cross, blood dripping from his hands and feet, and think about all the things I had done that week to cause the pounding of a nail through his flesh. Tons of guilt. One of our readings was almost always from Psalms, promising that if we would just call God when we needed Him, He would deliver us from our troubles. My house was full of troubles. And I'd call out for God's help every blessed night through tears. God never came. And that just reinforced my belief that my sins (fighting with my siblings and such) was causing God not to care.... Everything reinforced each other into an understanding that there really is no God out there at all, or He is there -- and just not there for me. Either way, the result is the same....

---
Lis

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10/5/2017, 2:58 pm Link to this post PM JustLis
 
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Re: Religion


quote:

MsSusieQueue wrote:

I'm more in agreement with Belle (Jesus was a revolutionary and my religious upbringing is the basis of my belief in social justice) and my agnostic friend Lis, who I consider far more "Christian" than the current POTUS who likes to quote "Two Corinthians" while trying to ram his camel through the eye of the needle.

I do know that you work hard at caring for the poor among us, and I admire you for that. As for Paul, I reiterate, we will have to agree to disagree as to whether his "interpretations" of the messages (perhaps not quoted verbatim) of Jesus are accurate. I think Paul filtered the message of the Gospels through his own experience. I will admit that I do the same thing. I will continue to believe that Jesus LOVED women, but Paul considered us as children of a lesser God.



Thanks, Susie. emoticon Just from what I have read of everyone here, we all share a belief in at least some level of social justice and live it in our lives. As you noted, and as I've also found true in my experience, Trump and others who flaunt their "Christianity" to others are the worst examples of true Christianity.

As for your belief that Paul filtered the message of the Gospels through his own experience, I have to believe that is also true of all of those who wrote religious messages of the time. While I think it is entirely possible that these men were inspired by God, I don't think anyone is claiming they were directly hearing God's voice. (Not to mention that opens a whole host of mental health issues.) Even if they were inspired, that inspiration is filtered through the life experience of those doing the writing. That relatively easily explains why inspired writers in a male-dominated world of centuries ago would have very different messages from inspired writers today.

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Lis

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10/5/2017, 3:35 pm Link to this post PM JustLis
 
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Re: Religion


quote:

MsSusieQueue wrote:

This Sunday was our annual St. Francis celebration, with the blessing of the animals, Hawk. I asked our (Episcopal) priest what was the most unusual pet he had ever blessed. He responded that one of the young girls (who is now in college) asked him to bless the cricket that she intended to feed to her pet hamster. I know this girl, and I know she was testing our priest. He blessed the cricket.

None of my beliefs makes sense to anyone other than me, either. One belief I refuse to give up, however, is the Golden Rule. I could be a blessed cricket and be at peace.



How sweet, Susie! And how wonderful of the priest! emoticon

---
Lis

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10/5/2017, 3:38 pm Link to this post PM JustLis
 
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Re: Religion


I think you have to start with a pretty binary position when first discussing religion.

Is there a God? Or is there not a God?

Certainly if there is a God, he has not made it extremely easy to know him. Like, I don't have his e-mail address. I can't call him on my cell phone.

However, in science and in mathematics, I can see very clear structures, orders, patterns that make me question how the universe as we know it "just happened". I have reviewed several studies done by an MIT professor that essentially claims that the random chance theory does not seem to have had nearly enough time to have eventually produced the universe as we know it.

Anyway, I find no scientific evidence that proves or disproves the existence of a God.

I find plenty of anecdotal evidence that makes me comfortable in my belief that there is.

Now, if you still don't believe there is a God, I would encourage you to think about this adage: Children are keen observers, but very poor interpreters. A child may be keenly aware that their parents are getting a divorce, but is also likely to think the divorce is because of something the child did.

If there is an all-knowing, sentient creator God, then we must be very childlike in our understanding of him and his world. To speak with great certainty of God, his existence, or his "rules of engagement" Is fraught with childish peril. A child might think that prayer works just like a magic trick. Or that "God never came" or "was never there for me". And that child could be wrong because they have a limited understanding.

We observe the world in our three dimensions of space, and one dimension of time (which only goes in one direction). Science teaches a lot about the "what". It teaches almost nothing about the "why". But there is a lot of "why". Even non-believers seek to know the "why". We are on this board because there is a "why" in this world, and we are drawn to it.

If, for a moment, you either believe there is a God, or can accept that there might be a God, then the next question to consider is this: Does he care about me at all? Does he even know I exist?

I have some thoughts this if anyone wants to go down that path. If not, I'll save my electronic breath. emoticon

Peace.

---
I thought growing old would take longer.
10/5/2017, 9:52 pm Link to this post PM bigbarry2u
 
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Re: Religion


bigbarry2u wrote:

Also, in my theology, nobody "earns" a spot in heaven. it is freely given to anyone that will accept it. No matter rich or poor, gay or straight, black or white, young or old, male or female. None of us can do anything to deserve it. But we can accept the grace and mercy to receive it.

That sounds good, but what does it mean? The contract that seals the acceptance is very very long, and the clauses are open to dispute, witness the number of denominations there are in Christianity alone. When I was a child, I cried myself to sleep at night because I was taught, and believed, that my maternal grandmother, the first person who ever read from the Bible to me, was going to hell because she was a Baptist and had instrumental music in her church.

My mother died when I was 16 months old, and I was raised by my father's sisters, one of whom told me I was lucky that my mother had died because if she had lived I would have been a Baptist and lost my soul. (It really bothered this aunt later on that I lost it anyway, but it served her right.)
10/6/2017, 6:50 am Link to this post PM Bellelettres
 
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Re: Religion


Wow, Belle. I am really sorry that was your experience. Lots of harm has been done in the name of Christ. Lots of terrible, terrible harm. And none of it is our place to do.

Jesus told us not to judge each other. Period. Your aunts were dead wrong to say such things to you. Anyone that thinks they really know the mind of God imperils themselves of being wrong.

I'm sure the assholes at Westborough Baptist Church thinks "God hates fags". Others may think God does not want musical instruments in church. Others may thing God hates Baptists.

But....

Image

---
I thought growing old would take longer.
10/6/2017, 9:51 am Link to this post PM bigbarry2u
 
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Re: Religion


There are a lot of people who wear their "religion" on their sleeves who are going to Hell. There are others who may not even claim to be religious but try to live their lives as they should who won't.

I have zero use for the former, and I've known and still know a lot of them. Organized religion is about money and power anyway.
10/6/2017, 10:42 am Link to this post PM CooterBrown44
 
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Re: Religion


quote:

bigbarry2u wrote:

I think you have to start with a pretty binary position when first discussing religion.

Is there a God? Or is there not a God?

Certainly if there is a God, he has not made it extremely easy to know him. Like, I don't have his e-mail address. I can't call him on my cell phone.

However, in science and in mathematics, I can see very clear structures, orders, patterns that make me question how the universe as we know it "just happened". I have reviewed several studies done by an MIT professor that essentially claims that the random chance theory does not seem to have had nearly enough time to have eventually produced the universe as we know it.

Anyway, I find no scientific evidence that proves or disproves the existence of a God.

I find plenty of anecdotal evidence that makes me comfortable in my belief that there is.

Now, if you still don't believe there is a God, I would encourage you to think about this adage: Children are keen observers, but very poor interpreters. A child may be keenly aware that their parents are getting a divorce, but is also likely to think the divorce is because of something the child did.

If there is an all-knowing, sentient creator God, then we must be very childlike in our understanding of him and his world. To speak with great certainty of God, his existence, or his "rules of engagement" Is fraught with childish peril. A child might think that prayer works just like a magic trick. Or that "God never came" or "was never there for me". And that child could be wrong because they have a limited understanding.

We observe the world in our three dimensions of space, and one dimension of time (which only goes in one direction). Science teaches a lot about the "what". It teaches almost nothing about the "why". But there is a lot of "why". Even non-believers seek to know the "why". We are on this board because there is a "why" in this world, and we are drawn to it.

If, for a moment, you either believe there is a God, or can accept that there might be a God, then the next question to consider is this: Does he care about me at all? Does he even know I exist?

I have some thoughts this if anyone wants to go down that path. If not, I'll save my electronic breath. emoticon

Peace.



I am interested.... But it sounds like you're leaving me out of the conversation from the very start, by saying we must start with a binary position: Is there a God or not? It isn't a binary position when you just don't know.... And perhaps there is some kind of spiritual realm people enter after death, but not an entity we refer to as "God." I am open to a lot of possibilities.

I appreciate that anecdotal evidence in your life supports your belief in a God. I rely on anecdotal evidence for many of my beliefs, too, so I'm comfortable with that.

I also recognize that a lot of my understandings (or lack thereof) were formed in childhood and sound childlike -- even to me. But I am no closer to any answers even in adulthood. Too many things just don't square with what is advertised, and too many answers to prayers also have perfectly secular explanations. Again, I'm not at all saying that prayer doesn't work or God isn't there. There are just too many possible explanations. And I just don't know.

I'll take you one step further into my belief system. I absolutely believe that there is SOMETHING beyond this realm. I believe that as fact. I have had too many personal experiences and have seen too many things to not know that is real. So...where does that fit? Is it "limbo"? Is it "heaven"? Is it simply a different level of existence? I don't know. But I know it's real just as surely as you know God is real.

Trying to figure it all out....

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Lis

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10/6/2017, 2:22 pm Link to this post PM JustLis
 
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Re: Religion


quote:

Bellelettres wrote:

When I was a child, I cried myself to sleep at night because I was taught, and believed, that my maternal grandmother, the first person who ever read from the Bible to me, was going to hell because she was a Baptist and had instrumental music in her church.

My mother died when I was 16 months old, and I was raised by my father's sisters, one of whom told me I was lucky that my mother had died because if she had lived I would have been a Baptist and lost my soul. (It really bothered this aunt later on that I lost it anyway, but it served her right.)



Oh, Belle.... I am so very sorry you experienced this. Were I God, I would be so very sad that the messages of love in so many faiths were twisted into messages that caused pain.

My Great-Aunt had a stillborn child, and her Catholic priest told her that the baby would be in limbo forever because he died before being baptized. What a HORRIBLE trauma to put on a poor family already in such desperate pain. I cannot forgive that cruelty.

I understand churches having rules and expectations to try to prevent their members from sinning and staying on the right path to heaven. But then those rules belie the announcement that if you accept Jesus into your life, you're saved, and your works are irrelevant. Certainly we're told that God accepts sinners, but the fact is that no one is perfect. So.... Which is it?

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Lis

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10/6/2017, 2:30 pm Link to this post PM JustLis
 
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Re: Religion


quote:

bigbarry2u wrote:

Jesus told us not to judge each other. Period.



I have asked Christian friends about this a couple of times. The explanation I have heard is that Jesus meant people weren't supposed to judge others with regard to secular matters. But as Christians, they had a duty to keep each other in line with regard to morality issues, to make sure they weren't sinning.

Maybe I missed it, but I have never read a Bible with an asterisk to make a distinction.

Last edited by JustLis, 10/6/2017, 2:35 pm


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Lis

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10/6/2017, 2:35 pm Link to this post PM JustLis
 
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Re: Religion


quote:

CooterBrown44 wrote:

There are a lot of people who wear their "religion" on their sleeves who are going to Hell. There are others who may not even claim to be religious but try to live their lives as they should who won't.

I have zero use for the former, and I've known and still know a lot of them. Organized religion is about money and power anyway.



Cooter, I have always said that those who brag the loudest about what great Christians they are, are the worst examples of it. Most of the religious people I know simply live their faith.

In my experience, organized religion in the form of local churches have MOSTLY kept to the themes of love and service. (Some extreme conservative exceptions, of course.) But those that expand into megachurches with big-name entertainers and preachers living in mansions seem to lose the message.

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Lis

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10/6/2017, 2:39 pm Link to this post PM JustLis
 
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Re: Religion


There are so many contradictions in the Bible that people of faith have to distort their minds into pretzels to resolve them. "Judge not that ye be not judged," contrasted with the requirement to believe that anyone who is not a Christian is going to hell is only one of them.

A biggie is to believe a God who ordered his people to kill other people, even their little children, younger than the age of accountability, is a God of love who extends love and grace to everyone.

Another biggie is the Book of Job. How anyone gets past that one without having a mental meltdown is beyond me. But there was a time when I must have got past it. God couldn't be guilty, so Job had to be, even as Job remained faithful to God as God allowed Satan to punish him in the most inhuman ways. Why did God do that? To win a bet with Satan.

But it's pointless to denounce myths that I don't believe in. The only humane reason I can think of to do that is to free people who are hurt by the myths, either because they are in mental agony when belief clashes with their own reason, or because they are persecuted by people who ply the myths.

The wicked aunt I told you about made her own sacrifice. She sent away the love of her life because she couldn't persuade him to join the church, and married a tyrant and a pig who made a mental wreck of her.

There are people the myths don't ruin, who somehow reconcile the contradictions and go through life benevolent, humanitarian, happy, and kind. Barry seems like such a person, and my sister is one. I don't discuss religion with her because I don't want to hurt her, but since she loves me, I know she must suffer when she thinks about me burning in hell.



   
10/6/2017, 4:33 pm Link to this post PM Bellelettres
 
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Re: Religion


quote:

JustLis wrote:

quote:

bigbarry2u wrote:

I think you have to start with a pretty binary position when first discussing religion.

Is there a God? Or is there not a God?

Certainly if there is a God, he has not made it extremely easy to know him. Like, I don't have his e-mail address. I can't call him on my cell phone.

However, in science and in mathematics, I can see very clear structures, orders, patterns that make me question how the universe as we know it "just happened". I have reviewed several studies done by an MIT professor that essentially claims that the random chance theory does not seem to have had nearly enough time to have eventually produced the universe as we know it.

Anyway, I find no scientific evidence that proves or disproves the existence of a God.

I find plenty of anecdotal evidence that makes me comfortable in my belief that there is.

Now, if you still don't believe there is a God, I would encourage you to think about this adage: Children are keen observers, but very poor interpreters. A child may be keenly aware that their parents are getting a divorce, but is also likely to think the divorce is because of something the child did.

If there is an all-knowing, sentient creator God, then we must be very childlike in our understanding of him and his world. To speak with great certainty of God, his existence, or his "rules of engagement" Is fraught with childish peril. A child might think that prayer works just like a magic trick. Or that "God never came" or "was never there for me". And that child could be wrong because they have a limited understanding.

We observe the world in our three dimensions of space, and one dimension of time (which only goes in one direction). Science teaches a lot about the "what". It teaches almost nothing about the "why". But there is a lot of "why". Even non-believers seek to know the "why". We are on this board because there is a "why" in this world, and we are drawn to it.

If, for a moment, you either believe there is a God, or can accept that there might be a God, then the next question to consider is this: Does he care about me at all? Does he even know I exist?

I have some thoughts this if anyone wants to go down that path. If not, I'll save my electronic breath. emoticon

Peace.



I am interested.... But it sounds like you're leaving me out of the conversation from the very start, by saying we must start with a binary position: Is there a God or not? It isn't a binary position when you just don't know.... And perhaps there is some kind of spiritual realm people enter after death, but not an entity we refer to as "God." I am open to a lot of possibilities.

I appreciate that anecdotal evidence in your life supports your belief in a God. I rely on anecdotal evidence for many of my beliefs, too, so I'm comfortable with that.

I also recognize that a lot of my understandings (or lack thereof) were formed in childhood and sound childlike -- even to me. But I am no closer to any answers even in adulthood. Too many things just don't square with what is advertised, and too many answers to prayers also have perfectly secular explanations. Again, I'm not at all saying that prayer doesn't work or God isn't there. There are just too many possible explanations. And I just don't know.

I'll take you one step further into my belief system. I absolutely believe that there is SOMETHING beyond this realm. I believe that as fact. I have had too many personal experiences and have seen too many things to not know that is real. So...where does that fit? Is it "limbo"? Is it "heaven"? Is it simply a different level of existence? I don't know. But I know it's real just as surely as you know God is real.

Trying to figure it all out....



Lis, I did not mean to imply that if you have doubt you are out of the conversation.

I meant there either IS a God, or there IS NOT. A spiritual realm of fuzzy dimensions does not preclude a God that created it.

Christians in particular, but probably most people of faith went through dark periods of time when they felt that they had to subvert truths that did not line up with their understanding of God.

Galilleo was persecute as a heretic for suggesting the Earth was not the center of the universe. Maybe they somehow lived in fear that their religion would be proven false.

Some say science and religion are at odds with each other, but I disagree. I believe both, in their sincerest form, are in pursuit of the truth. They are just coming at it from different perspectives.

Stephen Hawking, as brilliant a physicist there has ever been, has gone back and forth in his beliefs that there is a God, and that there is not a God. At last check, I believe he was in the "no God" camp. In his "Brief History of Time" he postulates that science has advanced pretty far in the discovery of "the what", but does not get far into "the why".

And Lis, to be clear, I don't think you will burn in hell. And I don't judge you at all. You seem like a really great person with terrible political views. emoticon :P

I assure you I don't sit here thinking, "oh well, doesn't matter because she is going to hell, etc."

I don't know how all that works. Jesus said "no one comes to the Father except through me". Some people could use that as the bat with which to beat people over the heads spiritually, but is it possible that Jesus has more than one way, say, the Baptist way, or the Catholic way, to do this?

Is it possible a Buddhist dies only to find his deity in the other realm saying "good job, now let me tell you what happens next."

I just believe we should pursue God. Having faith does not mean not having doubts or questions.


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I thought growing old would take longer.
10/6/2017, 5:18 pm Link to this post PM bigbarry2u
 
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Re: Religion


I have been reluctant to get into this conversation because my view of religion and my efforts to practice it are very different from the general view of what religion is and what it means to practice it.

The first part of the differences that I will speak of is the fact that I see religion as comprised of two parts, the outer side, exoteric, and the inner side, esoteric. The vast majority of the misgivings about religion, in my view, are about the outer side, which is regarded as the whole of it. The inner or esoteric side is seldom addressed and seldom understood.

The other difference is that is that I see religion as a teaching in psychology and every word spoken and written has an inner(psychological) and outer(practical) side. Practicing religion to me, in that context,is striving to understand the inner content of the words. The parables, the Sermon on the Mount provide a vast amount of opportunity to seek the inner meanings of what is written. The Old Testament also presents those opportunities.

I know, out there, right?
10/6/2017, 5:43 pm Link to this post PM bricklayer
 
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Re: Religion


quote:

bricklayer wrote:

I have been reluctant to get into this conversation because my view of religion and my efforts to practice it are very different from the general view of what religion is and what it means to practice it.

The first part of the differences that I will speak of is the fact that I see religion as comprised of two parts, the outer side, exoteric, and the inner side, esoteric. The vast majority of the misgivings about religion, in my view, are about the outer side, which is regarded as the whole of it. The inner or esoteric side is seldom addressed and seldom understood.

The other difference is that is that I see religion as a teaching in psychology and every word spoken and written has an inner(psychological) and outer(practical) side. Practicing religion to me, in that context,is striving to understand the inner content of the words. The parables, the Sermon on the Mount provide a vast amount of opportunity to seek the inner meanings of what is written. The Old Testament also presents those opportunities.

I know, out there, right?



Yeah, pretty sure you're going to hell... :P:P:P:P:P

I don't think you're out there at all.


---
I thought growing old would take longer.
10/6/2017, 6:16 pm Link to this post PM bigbarry2u
 


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