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Miz Robbie Profile
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Brexit


Brexit: All you need to know about the UK leaving the EU

5 December 2019

What is Brexit

Brexit - British exit - refers to the UK leaving the EU.

*****

Why is the UK leaving?

A public vote - or referendum - was held on Thursday 23 June 2016, to decide whether the UK should leave or remain.

Leave won by 52% to 48%. The referendum turnout was very high at 72%, with more than 30 million people voting - 17.4 million people opting for Brexit.

Why hasn't Brexit happened yet?

Brexit was originally due to happen on 29 March 2019. That was two years after then Prime Minister Theresa May triggered Article 50 - the formal process to leave - and kicked off negotiations.

Under Mrs May, the deadline was delayed twice after MPs rejected her Brexit deal - eventually pushing it to 31 October.

Despite negotiating a revised deal, Prime Minister Boris Johnson missed the latest deadline, after MPs failed to pass it into law.

The EU agreed to a further extension until 31 January.

Why did Parliament reject Theresa May's Brexit deal?

The main sticking point for many Conservative MPs and the DUP (the government's ally in Parliament) was the backstop.

This was designed to ensure there would be no border posts or barriers between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland after Brexit.

If it had been needed, the backstop would have kept the UK in a close trading relationship with the EU and avoided checks altogether.

But many MPs were critical. They said if the backstop was used, the UK could be trapped in it for years. This would prevent the country from striking trade deals with other countries.

Parliament's opposition to the deal eventually led to Mrs May's resignation.

What is the new Brexit deal?

After taking over as PM in July 2019, Mr Johnson renegotiated parts of Mrs May's deal.

The backstop has been replaced with new customs arrangements. Once they take effect, the UK would be able to sign and implement its own trade agreements with countries around the world.

The revised plan effectively creates a customs and regulatory border between Northern Ireland and Great Britain. This means some goods entering Northern Ireland from Great Britain would have to pay EU import taxes (known as tariffs).

These would be refunded if goods remain in Northern Ireland (ie are not moved to the Republic of Ireland).

As for the rest of the deal, much remains largely unchanged from the one negotiated by Mrs May. Known as the withdrawal agreement, it includes:

 *the rights of EU citizens in the UK and British citizens in the EU

 *how much money the UK is to pay the EU (initially thought to be £39bn)

There are also changes to the political declaration, which sets out plans for the long-term relationship between the UK and the EU. It says this would be based on a free trade agreement.

Why hasn't the new Brexit deal been approved?

Mr Johnson attempted to put his revised deal to Parliament on 19 October.

However, the vote did not go ahead. MPs chose to postpone a vote on the deal until legislation needed to turn the withdrawal agreement into UK law was completed.

It meant Mr Johnson had to send a letter to the EU to ask for another Brexit delay. EU leaders agreed to the request, meaning that Brexit will be pushed back to 31 January.

The UK could leave before the new deadline, if a deal is approved by the new government after the general election.

Will a no-deal Brexit cause disruption?

If the UK leaves without a deal, the EU will start carrying out checks on British goods. That is because the UK will leave the customs union and single market overnight.

This could lead to delays at ports, such as Dover. Some fear this could lead to traffic bottlenecks, disruption to supply routes and damage to the economy.

Combined with possible sharp falls in the pound, the price and availability of some foods could be affected. There are also concerns over potential shortages of medicines.

Mr Johnson has tried to calm such fears by announcing an extra £2.1bn of funding to prepare for a possible no-deal outcome.

Many Brexit supporters say it is hard to accurately predict what will happen, or believe any economic disruption will be short-term and minor.

But most economists and business groups believe no deal would lead to economic harm.

For example, the Office for Budget Responsibility - which provides independent analysis of the UK's public finances - believes a no-deal Brexit would cause a UK recession.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-32810887

Last edited by Miz Robbie, 12/9/2019, 9:23 pm


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12/9/2019, 9:21 pm Link to this post PM Miz Robbie
 
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Re: Brexit


The opening post is the BBC's summation of what has happened, what is happening now, and what may happen in the future.

Nobody needs to feel stuck with the Beeb's interpretation.

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Robbie
12/9/2019, 9:24 pm Link to this post PM Miz Robbie
 
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Re: Brexit


Thanks for posting this, Robbie. I've understood some of the conflicts involved in Brexit, but not all -- and I've never read an article that is this clear and succinct in highlighting them. So thanks!

The option I WISH Great Britain would use is to allow another public election. I remember at the time that Google reported the day AFTER the Brexit vote, the most Googled word in Great Britain was "Brexit." So many people said they knew nothing about it and just listened to politicians on one side or the other -- and suddenly learned afterward that there would be serious repercussions for them.

It seems to me that if Britain leaves the EU under an agreement, Britain will suffer a recession. If Britain leaves the EU WITHOUT an agreement, Britain will suffer a WORSE recession.

It's like asking if you'd rather drink this tablespoon of cod liver oil or a full cup of cod liver oil.

No, thanks, on BOTH counts.

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Lis

Just one voice.... Singing in the darkness....
12/10/2019, 2:25 pm Link to this post PM JustLis
 
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Re: Brexit


Election results 2019: Boris Johnson returns to power with big majority

13 December 2019

Boris Johnson will return to Downing Street with a big majority after the Conservatives swept aside Labour in its traditional heartlands.

With just a handful of seats left to declare in the general election, the BBC forecasts a a Tory majority of 78.

The prime minister said it would give him a mandate to "get Brexit done" and take the UK out of the EU next month.

Jeremy Corbyn said Labour had a "very disappointing night" and he would not fight a future election.

The BBC forecast suggests the Tories will get 364 MPs, Labour 203, the SNP 48, the Lib Dems 12, Plaid Cymru four, the Greens one, and the Brexit Party none.

That means the Conservatives will have their biggest majority at Westminster since Margaret Thatcher's 1987 election victory.

Labour, which has lost seats across the North, Midlands and Wales in places which backed Brexit in 2016, is facing its worst defeat since 1935.

Speaking after he was re-elected in Uxbridge, west London, with a slightly higher majority, Prime Minister Boris Johnson said: "It does look as though this One Nation Conservative government has been given a powerful new mandate to get Brexit done."

He added: "Above all I want to thank the people of this country for turning out to vote in a December election that we didn't want to call but which I think has turned out to be a historic election that gives us now, in this new government, the chance to respect the democratic will of the British people to change this country for the better and to unleash the potential of the entire people of this country."

Mr Johnson became prime minister in July without a general election, after the Conservative Party elected him as leader to replace Theresa May.

Speaking at his election count in Islington North, where he was re-elected with a reduced majority, Mr Corbyn said Labour had put forward a "manifesto of hope" but "Brexit has so polarised debate it has overridden so much of normal political debate".

Labour's vote is down around 8% on the 2017 general election, with the Tories up by just over 1% and the smaller parties having a better night.

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-50765773

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Robbie
12/13/2019, 1:42 am Link to this post PM Miz Robbie
 
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Re: Brexit


Next election, there isn't going to be a United Kingdom.

Scotland will be gone. Ireland will be gone. I don't know what Wales will do, but it probably doesn't matter.

This is a mess.

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12/13/2019, 1:53 am Link to this post PM Miz Robbie
 
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Re: Brexit


Thanks, Robbie. I wonder how their economies will be affected if those countries go it alone?
12/13/2019, 1:23 pm Link to this post PM CooterBrown44
 
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Re: Brexit


Cooter Our economy will take a great knock

Thanks for the platform and also the chance to comment on the BBC explanation of the Brexit issue. At the outset can I say that the BBC. article is accurate but not without the even handed bias that stems from the broadcaster being born of that nebulus body known as the Establishment. With Auntie BBC you will not be fed lies. However you will as like as not receive the “Village talk” that puts flesh on bones. Anything you will hear from me will be from the point of view of one who sees exiting the EU as huge self harm, so my bias is clear.
The whole concept of the EU was a result of the war weary peace of 1945. Prior to 1815 warfare had been seen as a legitimate final way to settle international disputes. After 1815 it became increasingly clear that this was far too costly a way to conduct diplomacy. By 1945 the lesson should have been fully learned and former enemies co operated in baby steps at first to deal with this problem. It started with a recognition that the primary engines
 of War like Coal Iron and Steel, needed to have international regulation. The need to reestablish cross border trade was also urgent and gradually The European Economic Union was born.
The trouble was that the most powerful European nation was reluctant to join the club and was aided in this by the leader of the (then ) second most powerful nation vetoing the Uk joining the club. The other great problem was our huge empire that still painted the globe pink. This swelled hearts at patriotic events and led to (to me, vomit inducing) displays of standing up, singing (lies) and feeling themselves??
By the 1950s it was obvious that our Empire was a Myth. None of its subjects wanted to be subjucated and some had already left the theatre (mostly bloodily). This rot first set in with you lot! You not only Won but won in a way that showed the dangers from upsart nations with vast natural resources and a lack of traditions.
Now move to Now. The horrendus wars are now reduced to heroic tales about great grandpa. Painfully negotiated deals with former enemies are belittled as surrenders of soveignty and times are hard (largely as a result of the power of YOUR banks and currency. So throughout the great EU family the same scapegoats are sought for the hard times and as always it is the incomers, the immigrants, the disposessed. Come the great fear, come the opportunist snake oil merchants. In Britain it is these Trump apprentices who were elected yesterday. Make no mistake the not so hidden agenda in our election was xenophobia and racism and I feel unclean.
12/13/2019, 8:01 pm Link to this post PM joethree
 
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Re: Brexit


Joe, thank you for posting the above. I hope you'll post a lot more.

One thing I heard before your vote was that Boris Johnson is nuts but Jeremy Corbin is nuttier. You were faced with a loser either way.

Do you think that is true?

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12/13/2019, 8:23 pm Link to this post PM Miz Robbie
 
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Re: Brexit


That's a masterly (and horrifying) summary, Joe. I would blame Texas (as Gail Collins did in her book) for the sins of the nation, but our nation was xenophobic even before Texas took it over.
12/14/2019, 5:55 am Link to this post PM Bellelettres
 
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Re: Brexit


Thank you for that summary, Joe. I hope that you will post on this some more as things happen and change along with some history behind some of the present movements.

Here, the people who own the banks and the big corporations are only interested in how rich they can get by any means, and I mean "any". They own the government, not the people. Therefore, the laws are written to enable them to become richer and thereby actually own the country. Small business is slowly having to either shut down or be bought up. Huge corporations buy other huge corporations to lessen the competition and the GOP government looks the other way.

I've gotten off-topic for which I apologize. I'll stop.
12/14/2019, 1:31 pm Link to this post PM CooterBrown44
 
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Re: Brexit


Thank folks for the appreciation of my post.Just to add to this we lost our Labour Mp of 49 years and for the first time since WW11 Bolsover has a Tory Mp. Dennis Skinner was legendary in his unswerving loyalty to the Socialist ideals and also renowned even by his opponents for his absolute integrity. The Tories of course are celebrating their great victory but there is a background here. The political demography of his constituency has been changing for years with the demise of the heavy smokestack industries and this has been reflected in a reduction in his majority over the past twenty years. Defying all logic though was the action of people who were his most loyal supporters who decided he had betrayed them by NOT rebelling the party line on the issue (which was to remain neutral). The irony is Dennis was and is a king sized Eurosceptic from before we ever became involved. What they never understood was that although Dennis was the scourge of the Tories he was never a rebel. He was always far too much of a Trad unionist and party man for that. One factor though was he hung on for far too long. We voted for him but were both under no illusions that a 86 year old is hardly the best bet for another five years. I think this factor was significant in the result.
Miz Robbie, Johnson is not nuts in the way your great leader is, he is a sociopath who is driven by his great self belief his birthright is to pursue that ambition at any cost without a single scruple. This makes him very dangerous indeed. Corbyn on the other hand is decent and honest but is locked into a left wing ideology that really has little traction with the ordinary voters. He has little charisma and actions earlier in his political career as a lefty made him a juicy target target for our extremely biased right wing media. For me the thing I found distasteful about him was his close politcal associates of the left who in my opinion should grow up and accept that the Socialist utopia was wet dream. The real tragedy of the present political scene is both of us no longer feel we understand our own nation to the extent of contemplating moving the the republic of Ireland a nation that is actively ditching bigotry and intolerance as my homeland is embracing it.


Last edited by joethree, 12/17/2019, 1:23 pm
12/15/2019, 7:00 pm Link to this post PM joethree
 
Miz Robbie Profile
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Re: Brexit


Thanks for responding to my comment, Joe. And thanks, as always, for your insights and perspectives on what is taking place. I think we all feel enlightened by your posts.

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12/15/2019, 7:09 pm Link to this post PM Miz Robbie
 
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Re: Brexit


quote:

Miz Robbie wrote:

Thanks for responding to my comment, Joe. And thanks, as always, for your insights and perspectives on what is taking place. I think we all feel enlightened by your posts.



I definitely do, Joe. Thank you.

12/15/2019, 7:16 pm Link to this post PM bricklayer
 
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Re: Brexit


I just now reread this thread, and I'm puzzled by one thing you said in your 12/13 post, Joe:

"This rot first set in with you lot! You not only Won but won in a way that showed the dangers from upsart nations with vast natural resources and a lack of traditions."

By 1945 we certainly had traditions, and most of our traditions came from you. Our republic grew out of yours, and although we claimed to be a classless society, the classes were apparent. "The very rich are not like you and me."

Edit: I had heard that Jefferson copied "the long train of abuses" in the Declaration of Independence from another source, so I googled:

Two Treatises of Government, 1690

The works of John Locke (1632–1704), well-known English political philosopher, provided many Americans with the philosophical arguments for inalienable natural rights, principally those of property and of rebellion against abusive governments. In the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson did not incorporate Locke’s emphasis in his "Second Treatise of Government" on the right to property but gave the right to rebel a prominent place.
Author: John Locke
Title: Two Treatises of Government
City: London
City: Awnsham Churchill
Date: 1690
Collection: Rare Book and Special Collections Division, Library of Congress

https://tinyurl.com/vwt276b

Last edited by Bellelettres, 12/16/2019, 7:53 am
12/16/2019, 7:33 am Link to this post PM Bellelettres
 
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Re: Brexit


This is not about Brexit, but I found it while googling the long train of abuses, and I had to share it with you because I had never read it before and thought that you would want to read it if you haven't. I edited it for length.

It occurred to me while reading it that "The Letter from the Birmingham Jail" might also be based on the Declaration of Independence.

Seneca Falls Declaration
Digital History ID 1087
Author: Elizabeth Cady Stanton
Date:1848

Annotation: On July 19, 1848, the first convention dedicated to equal treatment of women opened in Seneca Falls, New York, the birth place of the women’s movement in the United States. Some 300 people, including 40 men, attended the meeting at the red-brick Wesleyan Methodist Chapel. After a series of brief speeches by others, Elizabeth Cady Stanton read a bold statement of purpose….
 
Document: When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one portion of the family of man to assume among the people of the earth a position different from that which they have hitherto occupied, but one to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes that impel them to such a course.

We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men and women are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to secure these rights governments are instituted, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of those who suffer from it to refuse allegiance to it, and to insist upon the institution of a new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes;… But when a long train of abuses and usurpations…evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their duty to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security….The history of mankind is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations on the part of man toward woman, having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over her. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has never permitted her to exercise her inalienable right to the elective franchise.

He has compelled her to submit to laws, in the formation of which she had no voice.

He has withheld from her rights which are given to the most ignorant and degraded men_both natives and foreigners. …

He has made her, if married, in the eye of the law, civilly dead. He has taken from her all right in property. even to the wages she earns. …

In the covenant of marriage, she is compelled to promise obedience to her husband, he becoming, to all intents and purposes, her master_the law giving him power to deprive her of her liberty. and to administer chastisement.

He has so framed the laws of divorce, as to what shall be the proper causes, and in case of separation, to whom the guardianship of the children shall be given….

[H]e has taxed her to support a government which recognizes her only when her property can be made profitable to it.

He has monopolized nearly all the profitable employments, and from those she is permitted to follow, she receives but a scanty remuneration…. As a teacher of theology, medicine, or law, she is not known.

He has denied her the facilities for obtaining a thorough education, all colleges being closed against her.

He allows her in Church, as well as State, but a subordinate position, claiming Apostolic authority for her exclusion from the ministry….

He has created a false public sentiment by giving to the world a different code of morals for men and women….

Now, in view of this entire disfranchisement of one-half the people of this country, their social and religious degradation_in view of the unjust laws above mentioned, and because women do feel themselves aggrieved, oppressed, and fraudulently deprived of their most sacred rights, we insist that they have immediate admission to all the rights and privileges which belong to them as citizens of the United States.

[Here follow the resolutions.]

https://tinyurl.com/t95osov


Last edited by Bellelettres, 12/16/2019, 8:29 am
12/16/2019, 8:27 am Link to this post PM Bellelettres
 
joethree Profile
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Re: Brexit


Belle my reference was to the declaration of independance. Up to then Britain had been able to bully its colonial subjects into compliance. The war of independance showed the world that Britain was not invincible




















12/17/2019, 5:31 am Link to this post PM joethree
 
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Re: Brexit


Ah!
12/17/2019, 6:23 am Link to this post PM Bellelettres
 
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Re: Brexit


Thanks for the insights, Joethree!
12/17/2019, 12:05 pm Link to this post PM MsSusieQueue
 
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Re: Brexit


I enjoyed your posts, JoeThree. You sound a lot like my cousins living in Northern Ireland!

One point of query for me is your suggesting that the UK might break up, particulary in the case of Scotland. While I understand the desire for separation in Scotland may be on the rise after Brexit, I also am under the impression that there cannot be another referendum on leaving unless the UK parliament agrees, and that is vanishingly unlikely given the now massive Tory majority?

I am first generation U.S. as my father came over with his family from N.I. in the twenties, when he was 7 years old, and he brought my mother back from there as a war bride in 1946, after serving in the Eighth Air Force. So I have a lot of contact with my N.I. family, who are very unhappy with Brexit.
12/17/2019, 3:28 pm Link to this post PM Ol Perf
 
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Re: Brexit


RE: War of Independence

I don't think Britain was as massive compared to the colonies in strength as many people today view it in retrospect.

Just two examples: 1) A large portion of the British soldiery were rental Hessians, etc., not regular British troops, which most folks know, but also 2) Philadelphia was actually the SECOND LARGEST English speaking city in the world, only surpassed by London!

If you have ever visited what remains of Colonial Philadelphis, that latter fact is a shocking thing!!
12/17/2019, 3:35 pm Link to this post PM Ol Perf
 


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