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streamline2001 Profile
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for border wall


The demonstrations against the "national emergency" are all scheduled. If you want to attend one near where you live on Monday, go HERE.

The one I'm going to is set for tomorrow at 4PM.

---
Peter

"When it comes to humility, I'm the greatest." - Bullwinkle Moose
2/17/2019, 3:52 pm Link to this post PM streamline2001
 
Miz Robbie Profile
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for border wall


Spell "chutzpah" and provide an example.


‘Answer my question’: Fox News host grills defiant Stephen Miller on Trump’s national emergency

By Alex Horton
February 17 at 4:48 PM


Unstoppable rhetoric collided with immovable facts on Fox News, as White House senior policy adviser Stephen Miller defended President Trump’s national emergency declaration and invoked the potential for a veto if Congress disapproves in a Sunday interview with Chris Wallace.

The segment focused on the limits of presidential powers to circumvent Congress and procure funds to build 230 miles of barriers along the southern border. Miller described an onslaught of drugs and migrants flowing over the border as justification for the emergency declaration.

Yet, like a small army of fact-checkers have noted before, Wallace told Miller the vast majority of hard drugs seized by Customs and Border Protection are captured at points of entry, not between them, and unlawful migration over the border has fallen 90 percent since 2000.

So what crisis is the wall supposed to solve? In shades of former defense secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld’s “unknown unknowns” theory, Miller invoked what could not be demonstrated by his own administration’s statistics.

“You don’t know what you don’t know, and you don’t catch what you don’t catch,” Miller told Wallace. “But as a matter of national security, you cannot have uncontrolled, unsecured areas of the border where people can pour in undetected.”

The segment took a tense turn after Wallace pressed Miller, a self-proclaimed constitutional conservative, over measures designed to block the president from obtaining funds outside Congress.

That wasn’t an issue, Miller said: “Congress in 1976 passed the National Emergency Act and gave the president the authority, as a result of that, to invoke a national emergency in many different circumstances, but among them the use of military construction funds.”

And the military, conveniently, has already been deployed to the southern border, Miller noted, and a wall is needed to “secure those areas where they’re patrolling.”

In other words, troops were deployed to help harden the border and now need barriers to keep them safe from a threat Miller did not describe.

Still, the move lacks precedent, Wallace said, in how Trump has sought to secure his funds. Miller repeatedly refused to acknowledge it has not happened before and tried to fire back with a question of his own.

Wallace sailed passed the dodge.

“Then answer my question, can you name one case where a president has asked Congress for money, Congress has refused, and the president has then invoked national powers to get the money anyway?”

Miller responded: “Well this current situation — "

Wallace interjected again. “Just yes or no, sir.”

Miller answered “no” in a quick back-and-forth before moving to emergency declarations involving Zimbabwe as an example of overzealous use of authority — even though the 2003 measure against associates of despot Robert Mugabe was extended by Trump himself in March.

Miller ended the segment with a portent of even more challenging political maneuvering.

By September 2020, Miller said, “hundreds of miles” of new barriers will have been built along the border.

And he suggested that if Congress passes a resolution disapproving of the emergency, Trump would probably veto it. “He’s going to protect his national emergency declaration, guaranteed. … If the president can’t defend this country, then he cannot fulfill this constitutional oath of office.”

The segment ended. Wallace, in a flash of understatement, bid his guest farewell.

“It’s always good and always challenging to talk to you,” Wallace said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2019/02/17/answer-my-question-fox-news-host-grills-defiant-stephen-miller-trumps-national-emergency/?utm_term=.0e799ece0513

Last edited by Miz Robbie, 2/17/2019, 7:29 pm


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2/17/2019, 7:29 pm Link to this post PM Miz Robbie
 
streamline2001 Profile
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for border wall


Jee-Zuz! The snow is coming down like crazy - has been since dawn. Not sure if I’m going to make it to that demonstration this afternoon. Maybe if it lets up some in the next hour or so though...

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Peter

"When it comes to humility, I'm the greatest." - Bullwinkle Moose
2/18/2019, 1:07 pm Link to this post PM streamline2001
 
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for border wall


Well, now I have to meet the Fire Department at one of the buildings my company manages. No dire emergency, but it has to be done. Between that and the fact that it's below zero with the wind chill and I now know I can't make the demonstration this afternoon.

Saw video from the demonstration in Denver. Looked like a pretty good turnout.

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Peter

"When it comes to humility, I'm the greatest." - Bullwinkle Moose
2/18/2019, 2:10 pm Link to this post PM streamline2001
 
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for border wall


Try not to turn into a pillar of ice while you're out in it, Peter.

Last edited by Bellelettres, 2/18/2019, 2:23 pm
2/18/2019, 2:22 pm Link to this post PM Bellelettres
 
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for border wall


There was a demonstration within driving distance. I’m just not sure my arthritic back wouldn’t start aching like crazy if I had to stand for anything longer than five minutes. Getting old sucks.
2/18/2019, 3:06 pm Link to this post PM Birdz
 
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for border wall


No icicles on this kid. I met with the Fire Department and headed back home. It's zero out there right now!

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Peter

"When it comes to humility, I'm the greatest." - Bullwinkle Moose
2/18/2019, 4:39 pm Link to this post PM streamline2001
 
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for border wall


Upon further review, Trump just might win the lawsuits. It's been brought to my attention that a plethora of "national emergencies" have been declared by Presidents who took money from somewhere to use elsewhere and Congress was too busy chasing their "administrative assistants". Both Houses can veto the "emergency" by passing a resolution doing so but I see no chance that Mitch would even let one get to the floor.

Given the history of the previous "emergencies", I'm a little dubious about the courts entering the political realm, which they are not supposed to do.

We may be in trouble.
  
2/18/2019, 5:13 pm Link to this post PM CooterBrown44
 
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for border wall


Possibly, Jep. But Trump's mea culpa (see how I cleverly slipped in a legalese latin phrase there?) of "I didn't need to do this" offers political cover for plenty of interference by members of Congress.

Oh wait a minute, Congress would be reaffirming its constitutional power of the purse, wouldn't it? Tricky stuff this alleged separation-of-powers thingy.

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Peter

"When it comes to humility, I'm the greatest." - Bullwinkle Moose
2/18/2019, 5:22 pm Link to this post PM streamline2001
 
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for border wall


There's a caveat if one is supporting Trump. Congress has turned down his request for wall money a couple of times after he wouldn't take the $20 million that he had a chance at.

My personal feeling is that a President should not have the power to switch money appropriated for let's say military construction (improving an army base, for instance) and use it for the wall while claiming that it's being used for Army purposes.

So many of the right-wing folks claim that I'm really a Democrat even though I'm way more conservative than they are on federal powers and spending.
2/18/2019, 7:58 pm Link to this post PM CooterBrown44
 
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for border wall


I think what they mean, Jep, is that you're not what the Republican Party has become.

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2/18/2019, 8:52 pm Link to this post PM Miz Robbie
 
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for border wall


quote:

Miz Robbie wrote:

I think what they mean, Jep, is that you're not what the Republican Party has become.



I've made it clear for quite some time that I cannot support the GOP that we've had since Newt Gingrich and Rush Limbaugh. They do not support the basic conservative principles that I think an awful lot of people do.......or would.

I want to see today's GOP done away with and start over.
2/18/2019, 11:39 pm Link to this post PM CooterBrown44
 
streamline2001 Profile
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for border wall


Once again, Vermont leads the way!

Image

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Peter

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2/21/2019, 10:57 am Link to this post PM streamline2001
 
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for border wall


Reminds me of the AF, Peter.......lol.
2/21/2019, 12:52 pm Link to this post PM CooterBrown44
 
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for border wall


quote:

Birdz wrote:

quote:

Miz Robbie wrote:

quote:

Birdz wrote:

If trump can do this, what next? Will he declare another national emergency down the road that nullifies the civil rights of some?


That's a very good question, Birdz. Most of the questions in this regard that I've seen have been addressed to Republicans, along the line of "What would keep a Democratic President from declaring a firearms emergency and taking all the guns?"

Yours, though, goes to the more immediate prospect of what Trump could continue to do while in office.

Yikes!


I worry about that too, Robbie. I don’t trust the Dems to refrain from abusing power either. However, right now, IMO, the more immediate danger is how trump might abuse his powers.

Once again, my paranoia is making me imagine the worst . . .

Already, trump has used the word “treason” against his opponents. He used it to characterize the Congressional Dems’ Stone-faced reaction to his 2017 SOTU address as treasonous. I have some vague recollection of him using that word about some leak from the WH.

This leaves me worried that he might use future disaster, a (God forbid!) 2001-style terrorist attack, perhaps, as a pretext to declare another national emergency, which might include a crackdown against the anti-trump “resistance.”


Were *I* a terrorist group planning an attack on the US, I would see this as the PERFECT time to attack -- a mountain of senior positions unfilled, the military in disarray, the president moving thousands of soldiers to fight a non-existent threat at the southern border, infighting in the administration and Congress....

But like you, I'm worried about what Trump will do. The media and congressional Democrats have to be careful not to gloat or poke Trump TOO hard (even as they win their victories), because he is likely to retaliate in a way that makes things worse -- the very scenarios you and Robbie are suggesting....

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Lis

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2/23/2019, 3:35 pm Link to this post PM JustLis
 
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for border wall


quote:

CooterBrown44 wrote:

Upon further review, Trump just might win the lawsuits. It's been brought to my attention that a plethora of "national emergencies" have been declared by Presidents who took money from somewhere to use elsewhere and Congress was too busy chasing their "administrative assistants". Both Houses can veto the "emergency" by passing a resolution doing so but I see no chance that Mitch would even let one get to the floor.

Given the history of the previous "emergencies", I'm a little dubious about the courts entering the political realm, which they are not supposed to do.

We may be in trouble.


I read somewhere that if the House passes the resolution rejecting the emergency, the Senate MUST vote on the resolution within 15 days -- and McConnell can't do anything to stop it.

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Lis

Just one voice.... Singing in the darkness....
2/23/2019, 3:37 pm Link to this post PM JustLis
 
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for border wall


(NBC News) - More than 50 ex-national security officials tell Trump his national emergency is not justified

Fifty-eight former U.S. national security officials told the Trump administration in a letter Monday that they are aware of "no emergency that remotely justifies" diverting funds to build a border wall.

The officials, who served in both Democratic and Republican administrations, include former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, who served in the Clinton administration, and former Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel, a Republican who served in the Senate and the Obama administration.

Others include Leon Panetta, former secretary of defense and director of the CIA; Gil Kerlikowske, former head of Customs and Border Protection; John Kerry, former secretary of state; and Nick Rasmussen, former director of the National Counterterrorism Center.

The letter, according to its authors, is a declaration intended to be used in lawsuits challenging President Donald Trump's Feb. 15 decision to redirect $8 billion in federal funds in order to begin construction of a barrier along the southern border.



All Trump has to do is say he tried, and his minions and followers will attack the "deep state" for fighting Dear Leader's efforts.

---
Lis

Just one voice.... Singing in the darkness....
2/25/2019, 2:14 pm Link to this post PM JustLis
 
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for border wall


quote:

JustLis wrote:

(NBC News) - More than 50 ex-national security officials tell Trump his national emergency is not justified




Whoa! Of course that won't penetrate Trump's brain, nor the brains of his followers.



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2/25/2019, 2:47 pm Link to this post PM Miz Robbie
 
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for border wall


Of course not. Because THOSE people are EXPERTS! They're not to be trusted. Trust only Trump's gut.

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Lis

Just one voice.... Singing in the darkness....
2/25/2019, 3:15 pm Link to this post PM JustLis
 
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Re: Trump declares national emergency for border wall


There are people smarter than I am who say that Trump won't win.
2/25/2019, 10:56 pm Link to this post PM CooterBrown44
 


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