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Re: Trump Family Finance Schemes


quote:

Miz Robbie wrote:

quote:

bricklayer wrote:

I’m watching Mornin’ Joe, and listening to the ridicule heaped on Trump for his huge financial losses. The question that those losses raises for me is how are they justified. If the losses are overstated, or inadequately documented a case could be made for income tax evasion. That’s a much bigger question to me than Donald Trump’s business acumen or lack thereof.



Trump owes millions but we don't know to whom he owes those millions. American lenders won't deal with him because he has stiffed them too many times. So he owes those millions to a foreign entity or to several foreign entities.

Who are they? What must he do in return for the money? And has he been doing it while President?



All excellent questions. I suspect we’ll learn the who relatively quickly. The other two might take a while. They might only be answered after the election.



9/28/2020, 9:41 am Link to this post PM bricklayer
 
JustLis Profile
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Re: Trump Family Finance Schemes


quote:

bricklayer wrote:

I’m watching Mornin’ Joe, and listening to the ridicule heaped on Trump for his huge financial losses. The question that those losses raises for me is how are they justified. If the losses are overstated, or inadequately documented a case could be made for income tax evasion. That’s a much bigger question to me than Donald Trump’s business acumen or lack thereof.


I completely agree, Brick. Given Trump's multiple bankruptcies and business failures, no one should be surprised that he is in deep financial doo-doo.

But actually breaking the law AGAIN with no justice??? People may not relate to emoluments or bribes to Ukrainian officials, but they should certainly relate to the tax payment disparities noted in Belle's post.

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Lis

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9/28/2020, 9:48 am Link to this post PM JustLis
 
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Re: Trump Family Finance Schemes


quote:

bricklayer wrote:

According to the Times story Trump paid no taxes for ten years, and $750 for several other years over the past 15 years. I distinctly remember the outrage from the right during the Romney campaign over 48% of the population paying no income taxes. The overwhelming majority of those who pay no taxes have no liability because their income is so low that they have no tax liability. Is the right as outraged over corporations and multi millionaires and billionaires who pay no taxes? Of course not. Well, in Trumplandia, that depends on whether they’re Trump supporters.


I suspect the Trump accountants and lawyers found every loophole they could and then created some of their own.

I remember the Romney remarks. I'm sure that those making such low incomes would LOVE to be paid enough to owe taxes.

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Lis

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9/28/2020, 9:52 am Link to this post PM JustLis
 
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Re: Trump Family Finance Schemes


quote:

Bellelettres wrote:

Didn't Michael Cohen testify that Trump inflated his income to get loans, and deflated it on his taxes?


Yes, he did. Cohen was on one of the news programs last night, repeating those remarks. It shouldn't be hard to subpoena the records from his insurance company, so investigators can compare them to his property tax assessments.

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Lis

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9/28/2020, 9:54 am Link to this post PM JustLis
 
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Re: Trump Family Finance Schemes


quote:

Miz Robbie wrote:

Trump owes millions but we don't know to whom he owes those millions. American lenders won't deal with him because he has stiffed them too many times. So he owes those millions to a foreign entity or to several foreign entities.

Who are they? What must he do in return for the money? And has he been doing it while President?


It's pretty clear that he owes Russians, who have been laundering their money through Trump's properties. It sounds like a lot of it was passed through DeutscheBank.

What Trump has to do and whether he has been doing it while President seem pretty clear to me. If only the NSA somehow tapped the White House phone lines during Trump's many private conversations with Putin....

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Lis

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9/28/2020, 9:57 am Link to this post PM JustLis
 
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Re: Trump Family Finance Schemes


I think he also owes the Saudis.
9/28/2020, 11:47 pm Link to this post PM CooterBrown44
 
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Re: Trump Family Finance Schemes


Yeah, you're right about that.

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Lis

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9/29/2020, 12:06 am Link to this post PM JustLis
 
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Re: Trump Family Finance Schemes


quote:

CooterBrown44 wrote:

I think he also owes the Saudis.



Pay attention to what happened to Khashoggi, Donald. Pay your debts.

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Robbie
9/29/2020, 12:47 am Link to this post PM Miz Robbie
 
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Re: Trump Family Finance Schemes


Don't all those losses Trump took on his income tax forms mean he's a loser?
9/29/2020, 6:42 am Link to this post PM Bellelettres
 
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Re: Trump Family Finance Schemes


quote:

Bellelettres wrote:

Don't all those losses Trump took on his income tax forms mean he's a loser?



He's been treated very unfairly. It's a disgrace.

...or something like that.

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9/29/2020, 9:13 am Link to this post PM Miz Robbie
 
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Re: Trump Family Finance Schemes


Poor widdle boy. Everybody hates him nobody loves him he's gonna eat some woooorrrmmmmms.
9/29/2020, 11:34 am Link to this post PM CooterBrown44
 
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Re: Trump Family Finance Schemes


Yeah, but Trump doesn't like worms. They're so dirty....

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Lis

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9/29/2020, 9:18 pm Link to this post PM JustLis
 
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Re: Trump Family Finance Schemes


I'll bet he never does one day of being locked up before he dies.
9/30/2020, 12:12 am Link to this post PM CooterBrown44
 
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Re: Trump Family Finance Schemes


quote:

CooterBrown44 wrote:

I'll bet he never does one day of being locked up before he dies.



Unfortunately, I'll bet you're right.

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Robbie
9/30/2020, 12:34 am Link to this post PM Miz Robbie
 
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Re: Trump Family Finance Schemes


Not that I WANT a quick death for Trump. But I wouldn't shed a tear.

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Lis

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9/30/2020, 12:46 am Link to this post PM JustLis
 
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Re: Trump Family Finance Schemes


The New York Times is reporting that Eric Trump was deposed under oath today. They went past 5:00, but didn't know what time the questioning started.

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Lis

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10/5/2020, 9:03 pm Link to this post PM JustLis
 
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Re: Trump Family Finance Schemes


Donald Trump Has At Least $1 Billion In Debt, More Than Twice The Amount He Suggested
Dan Alexander - Forbes
10/16/20

No aspect of Donald Trump’s business has been the subject of more speculation than his debt load. Lots of people believe the president owes $400 million, especially after Trump seemed to agree with that figure on national television Thursday night. In reality, however, he owes more than $1 billion.

The loans are spread out over more than a dozen different assets—hotels, buildings, mansions and golf courses. Most are listed on the financial disclosure report Trump files annually with the federal government. Two, which add up to an estimated $447 million, are not.

It is important to note, as Trump did Thursday night, that he also has significant assets. Forbes values them at $3.66 billion, enough to make his net worth an estimated $2.5 billion. He is not broke, despite what many critics claim.

Some people also like to suggest that Deutsche Bank is the only institution willing to lend to Trump. That’s not true. The president’s creditors include at least six other institutions, two of which began or reworked deals while the president was in office.

One reason for all the confusion: Trump’s loans are not fully transparent. It’s still unclear to whom he owes an estimated $162 million against his skyscraper in San Francisco, for example. The loan against 1290 Avenue of the Americas is also something of a mystery. And it’s difficult to pin down the amount the president owes on a loan tied to his Bedford, New York mansion. When asked about all of this, the Trump Organization did not respond.

Here’s what we know—and don’t know—about the president’s debt.

1290 Avenue of the Americas
What Trump owes: $285 million
Who is the creditor: Unclear
When it’s due: November 2022
Interest rate: 3.34%

Donald Trump owns a 30% interest in 1290 Avenue of the Americas, which might explain why he does not list its debt on the financial disclosure report he files annually with federal ethics officials. Trump’s share of the debt on the building appears to be the largest liability in his entire portfolio. In 2012, he and his business partner, Vornado Realty Trust, got a $950 million loan from four financial institutions: Deutsche Bank, UBS, Goldman Sachs and the state-owned Bank of China. It is not clear exactly who holds the debt today. The Bank of China told Politico that it had sold off its portion of the loan.

Trump International Hotel Washington, D.C.
What Trump owes: Est. $170 million
Who is the creditor: Deutsche Bank
When it’s due: Sometime in 2024
Interest rate: Variable

Trump funded his redevelopment of the Old Post Office building in Washington, D.C., which now serves as the Trump International Hotel, with a $170 million mortgage from Deutsche Bank. It’s possible that Trump does not still owe all of that money today—the New York Times, which has access to Trump’s tax-return data, recently reported that the loan has a balance of $160 million. Regardless of the exact amount of principal outstanding, it doesn’t appear that the hotel is doing well enough to cover the interest expenses with profits from the business.

555 California Street
What Trump owes: Est. $162 million
Who is the creditor: Unclear
When it’s due: September 2021
Interest rate: 5.1%

Trump also owns a 30% stake alongside Vornado in 555 California Street, a skyscraper in downtown San Francisco. The partners have been paying down the loan, but they might make changes to it soon. In June, Vornado announced that it was considering whether to recapitalize 555 California Street and 1290 Avenue of the Americas. Any transaction involving those two buildings could have a huge effect on Trump’s business, given that his stakes in the two properties are his most valuable assets.

40 Wall Street
What Trump owes: $138 million
Who is the creditor: Ladder Capital
When it’s due: July 6, 2025
Interest rate: 3.665%

Weeks after announcing his initial presidential run, Trump refinanced his skyscraper in downtown Manhattan, borrowing $160 million. He has been paying down the debt ever since, but he still owes $138 million, according to documents filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

Trump National Doral
What Trump owes: Est. $125 million
Who is the creditor: Deutsche Bank
When it’s due: Sometime in 2023
Interest rate: Variable

Trump got a $106 million mortgage against his Miami golf resort from Deutsche Bank in 2012, at the time that he purchased the property. In August 2015, shortly after Trump launched his presidential bid, he got a second loan against Doral, this time for $19 million. It’s possible that his debt on the property is now more than the $125 million combined value of the mortgages. The New York Times reported last month that Trump’s balance totals $148 million.

Trump Tower
What Trump owes: $100 million
Who is the creditor: Ladder Capital
When it’s due: September 6, 2022
Interest rate: 4.2%

Trump took out an $100-million, interest-only loan against his signature Fifth Avenue tower in 2012. The property kicked off $13.3 million of net operating income in 2019, more than enough to cover the roughly $4.2 million Trump owes in annual interest expenses. Paying back the $100 million principal, due in two years, could be more complicated.

Trump International Hotel & Tower (Chicago)
What Trump owes: More than $75 million
Who are the creditors: Deutsche Bank, Chicago Unit Acquisition LLC
When it’s due: 2024 for part of it, unclear for the rest
Interest rate: Variable

The debt against Trump’s Chicago tower includes the most confounding liability in his portfolio. In addition to a Deutsche Bank loan for what seems to be $45 million, there’s a loan of more than $50 million, from a creditor named Chicago Unit Acquisition LLC. Here’s where things gets confusing: Donald Trump owns Chicago Unit Acquisition LLC, so he’s lending money to himself. If one of his companies owes more than $50 million to another one of his companies, then the company lending the money should theoretically be worth more than $50 million. But Trump does not list any value for Chicago Unit Acquisition LLC on his financial disclosure report. All of this has befuddled investigative reporters from Mother Jones, the Washington Post and, yes, Forbes for years.

There's much more and if you want to read it, go HERE.

---
Peter

"When it comes to humility, I'm the greatest." - Bullwinkle Moose
10/16/2020, 11:57 am Link to this post PM streamline2001
 
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Re: Trump Family Finance Schemes


Interesting stuff, Peter. Thanks for posting it.

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Robbie
10/16/2020, 12:24 pm Link to this post PM Miz Robbie
 
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Re: Trump Family Finance Schemes


Aha!
10/16/2020, 1:11 pm Link to this post PM Bellelettres
 
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Re: Trump Family Finance Schemes


Wow. Thanks, Streamline!

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Lis

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10/16/2020, 1:59 pm Link to this post PM JustLis
 


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